As kind of expected Amazing Believer's response to my question is underwhelming and actually doesn't address any of the points I raised.
If I'm wrong, I lose nothing. I will have lived a good and moral life. I will die
and there will not be a thought running through my head. I won't have all eternity
to think "Oh I was wrong." I'll be dead.
However, it is a lot worse for the other side if I am right. It means eternity in H
I really wished he would have addressed the point I raised that if he's wrong he wasted a lot of oppertunites after a nebulus promise and false hope AND encouraged others to do so. Convincing others to throw away their only life to me would be morally indefensible, but he seems to have no problem with it because if he's wrong no one will punish him. Selfish. Basically it's coming down to "I hope I'm right and If I'm wrong it doesn't matter who I wind up hurting". I got mine, screw you. I shouldn't be surprised considering he is fine and dandy with his god torturing people for not knowing or not sucking up.
I sent a reply asking him to address the actual points, but I'm not optimistic. I don't hate most Christians and am not all whoohoo anti-religion, but someone degrading and defaming EVERYONE, someone telling you that your loved ones are in hell and it's a good thing is not an opinion to respect. I think everyone should be atheistic when it comes to this disgusting gnostic mysticism cult brand of Christianity. It's anti-Good, Anti-love, anti-compassion, and of course...Anti-Life.
This is a copy of the letter I sent the Amazing Believer(tm) who made the video that got my thong in such a twist bellow. I am curious to see his reponse
Here's a question for you; What if you're wrong?
What if there is no god, no Jesus as the bible says? Or at very least you're idea of god doesn't reflect the reality of the real god? What then? You'll have not only wasted a large portion of your life believing a lie, a false hood, but you'd have spent a lot of time trying to convince others of the wrong idea! You will have threatened, insulted and degraded people calling them worthless hell worthy wretches for no good reason. What if you're wrong? What if this is all we have? Can you really take that risk and try to frighten and demoralize other people, getting them to throw away the only life they have? Can you justify the pain and sorrow you'd cause anyone who would believe you're "You are a lying, blasphemous, raping, theif" argument? Could you justify one tear shed by one little girl? Could you justify telling people their grandparents are in hell...forever, and deserve it by bully!. What if you're wrong? Can you justify not using your time to go out and instead of preaching and threatening your fellows helping them? Can you justify all the opportunities missed? All the lives you did not touch because you were too focused on touching souls? What if you're wrong?
Yay trolling on youtube gets much fertalizer for my garden of bloggyness.
The biggest problem seems to be that people do not understand terms like "all powerful" or "all knowing"
No....God did not make Hell for man...he never intended on us going there. He made if for the Devil ....
I did not agree with us not being immoral mnonsters...I agreed that you didn't do anything to deserve Hell..which is true, its not about what you do.
There is only one way to God and thats through Christ, being good has nothing to do with it. I never said anythine like that! "There is none that doeth good, no, not one." "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
It's a lack of imagination. Think you're process through to the end damn it!. If god is all knowing and all powerful then nothing can not happen that he did not intend. If your god didn't foresee it or couldn't stop it than he's not all powerful...and then all the more reason to oppose such a being. It can be over thrown. God makes people who will fall short of his standards and glory and then holds them accountable for that unless they say the MAGIC WORDS. This branch of Christianity isn't any happy good news philosophy, it's occultism. Gnosticism. Extortion. JOIN US OR PERISH!!!
By this argument you're master has sent many of our loved ones to hell...and we're supposed to want to join him? I don't see too many Jews getting themselves sized for jack boots. If someone comes into your house shoots your parents, dog and lover; you really don't want to side with them on principle.
I plan to publish more on the nature of this whole messiah bit later, but suffice to say. I honestly can't tell the difference between this guy's god and the typical Hollywood devil. Both demand your soul in exchange for rewards. God lets you get away with any sin as long as you give him your soul. That is damn close to offering earthly rewards for the deal in blood. Faust seemingly could have easily have made his deal with Yahway! instead of Mepheseto. In exchange for immortal life you have to trade your soul, and forsake your loved ones who don't go in with the bargain to eternal rape camp (why does that sound like a Asylum movie title?). You trade your will, your mind, and your heart to a god who torments the souls of the dead because he 'can't tolerate sin'. Of course he made the idea of sin, again...omnipotent remember...so he's really set up a system that he knows will send good people to hell. And why? not because of sin, but because they won't accept his sacrifice. Yeah, the sacrifice he necessitated with the rules he wrote....the sacrifice to himself. What? I will not forsake the memory of my loved ones or hell the rest of the world for such a god. Oblivion would be far preferable than to be the lacky of such a cosmic horror.
Like the song bellow says, he makes the game. He makes the rules, they are unfair, they are unjust and they are his fault.
Thank goodness it's all a hebbyjebby halfassed mess of mythology. Such a reality would be the WORST thing imaginable. It's often asked how people who don't believe in god have any hope? I say it should be the opposite, how do people who believe there's such a malevolent god have any hope? If I believed it I would wake up screaming every night.
Here's a warning...I will be getting into very obscene language and imagery here. If you're sensitive I actually encourage you to read it because the feelings it hopefully evokes is needed to make my point. I don't condone or like any that I describe...which is the point really. This is why this topic makes me so mad.
A response to my rant in the previous post from an appologist almost made my head asplode.
Heres my answer to all of what you said just now.
Your right...100 percent right. You didn't do anything to go to Hell and burn forever. Not one thing derseves such punishment. The thing is its not about what you do...Men who kill and steal, they will be in Heaven, Good men and Saints, they will be there to. The point is, we are apart from God, the only to him is go across a bridge which is Jesus Christ. How you choose to get over to him is what sends you to Hell. With or with out the bridge?
Yeah that's justice. Good people are sent to hell even if they don't deserve it because they didn't suck up and play to a tyrant's vanity? Bullocks.
He admits that I'm right and it isn't just, If your god is such an immoral monster I think good thought should be put into overthrowing him. By all accounts as an executive officer he has failed his social contractual obligation. He fails to meet Hobb's standards of protection and he fails Locke's of civil rights. If he existed he is an ass. Heyzues forget Sadam, Forget even Hitler. This is a guy who not only is indifferent to his own people, whom by nature of creating them he should have MORE responsability for than your average Junta strong man, he sends innocent people to be tortured forever.
Picture The worst torture you can imagine. Ok, now make it worse. Would you do that to anyone forever and say it's a just and reasonable thing? God, I hope you wouldn't. Hell, by definition is infinity WORSE than that. By supporting this god you are supporting all of the above and far worse.
The bridge he talks is not built on sacrifice and love...but torture and the backs of others. What you have to give for this salvation is not love or an acceptance of a gift as is said, in order to receive heaven you have to condone and give your stamp of approval on the worst rape concentration camp imaginable. You have to say, "yes good people will go to hell, but that's good because some of us chosen will get to heaven". You're crushing others beneath your feet to rise yourself up. You trade your humanity to become complacent in slavery, torture and a form of rape more worthy of the term than any attack or violence on earth.
How dare you support this idea.
How dare ANYONE say that is acceptable much less justice.
How DARE you try to make others feel like shit for not accepting it. How dare you tear down others for having humanity and compassion
.
At long last sirs, have you no shame, no sense of decency. Might does not make right
For such a cause I will gladly protest by going into that rape camp, and my last action of free will would be to give you and your Strong Man a one fingered salute.
EDIT: His response
You missed the point...Its not about what you do....Nothing you do will send you to Hell...Your going there good or not. The point is is that God doesn't want you to go there...your already going and its not cause God sends us, its because man has become cursed, we've doomed ourselves. God just wants to save us..."God is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance."
"For God so loved the world..."
He doesn't want to see you hurt!
"Immoral monster" We are the immoral monser!
God loves us so much he made hell to send good people if they don't kiss his ass and that is a good thing.
You're wrong you agreed that we are NOT immoral monsters. God cannot be good and send people to hell who don't deserve it. That's not a good thing. You should be ashamed of yourself to tell people that. Ashamed.
You know what, let's get back to topic and have my friends Allen Moore and Codename V respond.
Again this is the guy who supposedly makes all the rules. The guy who set up the board with no way to win and blames us. What a vicious cabaret.
I saw this you tube video and felt the muse...This arguement is popular in certain circles and frankly it sickens me. I needed to write some response.
Doesn't it bother you that you're religion has to convince people they are bad people, indeed worthy of eternal torture sanctioned by an infallibly just judicator, for relatively minor or non existent crimes?
I remember being a child and sitting in church, unable to grasp how I could have done anything that would constitute a sin. I was a kid, I had hurt no one, stolen nothing, by all accounts innocent as one could possibly be...and yet here were adults trying to convince me I was a disgusting wretched peice of shit. That unless I invoked the mercy of the Creator, worshiped him and played upon his vanity so that he would stay his hand, the supernatural force that loved me and made me who I was would be so repulsed by my deformity he would have no choice but to send me into a Tartarus filled with abominations and demons. Unless I gave into the church I was as bad as Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and the Child Rapist who lived at the end of the next block. How could anyone look at another person, yet alone a child and say that for telling a lie, for saying "no mommy we havn't gotten your birthday present yet" death is too good for them.
Question...Have you done something bad? Don't answer cause I know you have.
Truth hurts, that doesn't mean you should turn a blind eye to it.
Guys like Believer and I, we are NOT sorry for hurting your feelings with it. We all have done something bad, we "all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" - Romans 3:23
How is our good news really good news unless there is a bad news. The bad news your a sinner and there is a hell. Good news, God loves us and wants to save us.\
I am going to answer; No.
I have made mistakes, but I have not done something deserving of a hell.
I treat others fairly.
I am faithful, honest
I try to bring happiness to others
I try not to take more than my share
I believe in supporting my community
I believe in beauty and art.
I respect life, liberty, rights and on the whole, the feelings of others.
and yet...
I would lie to save a refuge
I would steal to feed an orphan.
Using god's name in vain originally refereed to oaths, I would break an oath or an unjust law to help others. I would reneg on a responsibility if doing so would bring more bad than good. I would not 'just follow orders'.
I would swear, which is what you're talking about to make a point. I don't believe in magic words. I would tell a hate filled man, like the judge who recently turned down an interracial couple from wedding that he's a "Goddamn fuck" because he warrents such language.
I lust and am unrepentantly sexual...as if my girlfriend, we are happy together. I would lust to make her happy.
I would break every one of your commandments to help someone, and I can think of cases where almost everyone would be just and necessary.
In order to be saved must I let the predator pray on victim? The hungry starve? Be a eunuch? Make others unhappy? Not use all the power I have to fulfill responsibilities to my fellows? Such a creature would not only be inhuman but would be inhumane.
Is it just for your God to condemn me and my ilk for this? Would he save a selfish monster who repented? A believing racist? A murderous inquisitor? A lecherous witch burner? If he gathers real sinners as saints and casts good men into the pit he is a sorry judge indeed.
I will not repent for being who I am. I will not repent for caring, for thinking, for loving. If You're right then, Yes, I will be tortured forever, and you will be saved. Not because you are better or nicer, but because you agreed to play ball.
If you're wrong...then you'll have sacrificed your freewill, your mind, your empathy and your humanity for a dream, a ghost of a promise.
Either way; As long as I live these knees will not bow to an ogre as cruel as thy god.
If that is not to the maker's criteria than I will suffer righteously in hell. Take what comfort from that that you will.
